Sareau wrote:
If you tell anyone Dracula dies by havig his throat slit by a Bowie knife as the sun sets, they'll look at you like you're an idiot-I've won bar bets with that one.
I believe it. I think Stoker's Dracula could have benefited from a good (better?) editor. The beginning and end are really the best, IMO, the action lags in the middle, and the title character is missing for most of the novel . . . its certainly not sacrilegious to say the novel could be more fully-formed. . . however, still one of my favorite books, and an excellent read. Stoker's ace at atmosphere.
Overall, I think Strahd is a much more complex character. Of course, we're spoiled, hearing his own story from his point of view, and having access to his personal justifications for his actions etc.
Is it even fair to compare the two?
~ L A D Y S O T H ~
"I rule out nothing. Nor, I imagine, do you."
"Oh, I do like to be beside the seaside . . . "
"Hail Strahd, Lord of Barovia!"
I don't think you can compare the two characters without acknowledging how one is based on the other to a very large degree.
Strahd is certainly a derivative character, clearly based on Dracula. That's not just the original Stoker Dracula,though, but also later movie and book (maybe even comic book) incarnations.
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.
DocBeard wrote:Castlevania Dracula. At least for fight scenes; turning into a whole flock of bats, spitting fire, rising out of a targeted PC's shadow, that whole deal. If the players work their way to a direct confrontation with Strahd, they deserve all the stops being pulled out.
This makes me want to run a Castlevania influenced Ravenloft/House of Strahd/Exp to Castle Ravenloft mini-campaign. Maybe when my players' PCs are higher level...
Delight is to him- a far, far upward, and inward delight- who against the proud gods and commodores of this earth, ever stands forth his own inexorable self.
sPtJanly wrote:The way my DM has been portraying Strahd has been evolving along side our characters. The Count's first introduction was shortly after the funeral of a slain party member. He had died saving my character from a cooper dragon who had recently come through the mists into Borovia.
The back story behind the dragon was that he had killed his life long mate and ate their clutch. The Dark Powers grabbed him up gifted him with a venomous scorpion tail. Sorry, I love details.
Strahd welcomed us into his home at Castle Ravenloft as heroes of Borovia for killing the dragon who was rampaging since his arrival. Reading over some of the previous posts I have come to a conclusion about one of Strahd's hiden characteristics that I never thought of before. I agree that he is extremely territorial and I believe that the vampireism has heighten that already natural trait he possessed in his mortal life. Underneath the gratitude I think there might have been resentment since he is the alpha male and was unable to fully protect the land from the dragon. The fact of the mater was that we had just stumbled upon the dragon first. Other than that he was accommodating in every way and I think we saw the more human side of Strahd who you would want to be friends with. He gave my character wise advice that has shaped the current state of how I play him now. Most of it was not an act with makes him truely a tragic figure in my mind.
We had a unique chance to spar with the count during the daylight hours. Yeah, either he has some high SPF sunscreen on or cast Mimic Mortal shortly before hand. In this I think he was showing off his deadly calm skill with his bastard sword. Another link to his mortality where he spent most of his life on a battlefield honing this skill. After we retired to his drawling room to smoke, drink, and talk about politics, joke and other matters like gentlemen do.
That night something spooked one of our party members and the next morning he asked if we could leave, now. Not sure of what it was, but the place is a sink hole of evil and wouldn't be to hard to imagine what got out despite Strahd's attempts to make the place look and feel normal. Well, as normal as a creepy run down castle can be.
In Borovia Village shortly after leaving the Castle one of our party members was replacing gear lost in the fight with the dragon and his acid breath. The merchant wouldn't serve "his kind" due to his half elven heritage and my character stepped in to tell the reluctant merchant that he is refusing a hero of Borovia and that we had just come from Castle Ravenloft as guests of his Count. The fear and instant compliance was unsettling and my character felt bad that issue was pushed. It reveled another part of Strahd's nature that his people were visibly scared to raise his ire. We might as well had a OR rating once word spread we had just come back from the Castle.
The second encounter with Strahd was a year or two later and there was an apparent change in his outward behavior. The castle was being renovated and massive trade was being opened throughout the domain and beyond. Like the Count had done for my character with his advise, another of our party members had opened the door of trade with him since our first departure. He dealt in producing and selling the count magic for two reasons. To make gold and secretly to keep tabs on Strahd's activities since he was the one who wanted to leave the Castle during our first stay. Something about these transactions and visit from our group had sparked a desire to open himself and the Castle to the outside world again. Though strictly on his terms with some comprise, but he was making an effort to appear more human like. Maybe this is a genuine desire to bring Borovia prosperity, but the beast in him still holds the reins. I think one of the hiden motives is to search the core for his lost love through expanded trade.
Dr. Von Ricton is a close friend and ally to the group and like an uncle to my character. He is disturbed by one particular detail in our encounters with the Count, his ability to walk in the daylight. Either he was mistaken in the research of the Guide to Vampires about Strahd or he is more powerful of a vampire than he figured in the timeline of events he uncovered. He is reluctantly leaning toward the the second conclusion and will more than likely find the truth of the matter soon enough in his research. Strahd's previous stand on the Von Ricton's Guide to Vampires in Borovia was merely propaganda and and slander against the Count. Now he wants to have the Doctor as an invited guest to the Castle to discuss the misunderstands of the Guide.
One of my favorites. Any time you shine a light (......) on a NPC of RL and develop upon on not only their established backstrory, but their continued evolution, your going to find your players have a more serious response to the NPC and their qualities and flaws.
This is some really interesting insight from a perspective you don't see too often in discussions like this- that of a player after actual play. And some words of wisdom about portraying characters in general at the end, too. Thanks for sharing this.
LadySoth wrote:Overall, I think Strahd is a much more complex character. Of course, we're spoiled, hearing his own story from his point of view, and having access to his personal justifications for his actions etc.
Is it even fair to compare the two?
Well, given how much Dracula has influenced the modern vampire (and one could argue Lord Ruthven, and by default his inspiraton, George Gordon, Lord Byron) one could claim that Strahd is a reflection of Dracula and not be too far off the mark. However, Strahd also incorporates echoes of Barnabus Collins, the first "reluctant vampire" in his personality, as well as certain 20th-21st century concepts of people of privilege, wealth, and power.
A comparison is inescapable-Strahd is, after all, a reflection of Dracula, just as any modern vampire is going to be based on Dracula or Elizabeth Bathory or the writer's take on these two characters. Strahd comes out fairly well as an individual, separate from the Count, but this is largely due to a group of people interested in a canonical Strahd publishing him. I think in play, one sees everything from Christopher Lee to Ferdie Mayne as the Lord of Barovia...
Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:His "protectiveness" of his land can also be seen in a bit more sinister light. Remembering that the I Strahd books, including the Caretaker story in Tales of Ravenloft are told from his point of view, seen from the outside, it's not protectiveness, but extreme possessiveness. This ties into his lust for Tatyana. He's all about what's "rightfully" his: his land, his people, his woman.
He's a bit of a spoiled brat, wanting what he wants, and taking it and hoarding it regardless of the consequences, dressing it up in terms of entitlement. He protects his land because it's his to prey on. He has no great love of his people other than as snacks, but anyone else dipping their hand in his cookie jar sets him off.
Ironic, since his fall was based on coveting that which was actually his brother's...
You nailed it. This is the quintessential summation of Strahd's driving force in his existence. I view it as he had a deprived childhood (he joined the army at what, 7? And the Terg occupation ended when he was in his 40s), and selfishly tried to gain whatever he felt he lost/was "owed" from the time he fought the war. Ironically, his time as a warrior is probably the only thing he's ever done that wasn't completely selfish.
Bluebomber4evr: The Justice, not you, since 2002.
Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist Persistent World for Neverwinter Nights: www.nwnravenloft.com
I'm curious whether anyone is familiar enough with the House on Gryphon Hill's (I10, was it?) twin Strahds - the Alchemist and the Monster, I think - after he went through the split and the Apparatus, and how Strahd's portrayal as suitor and non-vampire/non-Darklord influences subsequent interpretations.
Personally, I find his hallmark is control - but I quite like the point made about possessiveness. I think that is just as important.
The biggest struggle I've always had is reconciling the "ruler of Barovia" with "recluse in a castle on a mountain". He seems to be such an active part of Barovia, but that seems at war with the ruin he lives in and seclusion and obsessions he lives under.
Something that strikes me as interesting is the possibility that Barovia under Strahd may be regressing. Originally part of a much larger kingdom (such that Barov was posthumously titled "King") it shrank somewhat when it entered Ravenloft, and Strahd himself only assumes the name "Count".
Strahd himself seems to have been an able administrator back in the day, keeping his armies well supplied and taking a personal interest in the running of the realm (though he could never be accused of being too kind hearted a ruler). The problem was, by the time he had become the ruler, his spirit was already embittered and resentful from years of military campaigns.
By the time Sergei and Tatyana come into the picture, his lost youth is a growing aspect of his psychology. His transformation into darklord occurs at a time when this is almost his sole concern - eliminate the younger rival, possess his woman, regain his lost youth through the dark pact with "Death". Although I believe he does come back to the "national protector" role for his people every so often, it's fitful and infrequent. Remember his actions in "I, Strahd" and "Tales of Ravenloft" - he is an absentee ruler so often that bandits and criminals make resurgences in his absences. Most of his time is spent sleeping, researching magic, or searching for Tatyana.
I think there's a conflict in his personality. He resented the responsibility of power but still has enough of a noble sense left in him to occasionally heed its call to duty. In an ideal resolution, I get the impression that once he finds Tatyana he would likely withdraw entirely from public life to his own private existence. When he's brought back into the public eye it's usually grudgingly and in response to some major aberration - from machinations of the Kargat, or Inajira's works, or more mundane criminals and bandits.
Unlike Azalin or Drakov, Strahd doesn't appear to have much of a formal apparatus for rulership either. The burgomeisters report loosely to him, but years go by before they get responses. The Vistani are a vague informant network. Much of the drama of Strahd's stories are the fact that he usually has to personally see to various peacekeeping tasks around his own domain, in the Von Holtz persona.
Overall, I get the sense that this is a reluctant ruler who has given up the dreams of past glories. Occasionally he can be roused to action to halt the decline, but his heart and interests lie elsewhere. Barovia has already fallen to a reasonable state of early-medieval equilibrium. If Strahd steps in, it usually means things have gotten so bad he has no choice, or something specifically about the event points to Azalin, Inajira, magic, or Tatyana.
Strahd?
As a kind ruler, that encourages hospitality, sharing and help to outsiders of course!
No, I'm joking. I portray him as I, Strahd type but with a more evil and selfish tone than in the book.
"You truly see what a person is made of, when you begin to slice into them" - Semirhage
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia My DMGuild work!
Pale wrote:I'm curious whether anyone is familiar enough with the House on Gryphon Hill's (I10, was it?) twin Strahds - the Alchemist and the Monster, I think - after he went through the split and the Apparatus, and how Strahd's portrayal as suitor and non-vampire/non-Darklord influences subsequent interpretations.
Personally, I find his hallmark is control - but I quite like the point made about possessiveness. I think that is just as important.
The biggest struggle I've always had is reconciling the "ruler of Barovia" with "recluse in a castle on a mountain". He seems to be such an active part of Barovia, but that seems at war with the ruin he lives in and seclusion and obsessions he lives under.
Strahd really isn't much of a control freak. That's more Azalin's thing. The way he rules Barovia, through his burgomasters and boyars is not the way a control freak runs things. Contrast with Azalin micromanaging everything in Darkon, right down to people's thoughts and memories, Strahd seems almost lax in comparison (and is likely one of the reasons the two dislike each other so much).
Bluebomber4evr: The Justice, not you, since 2002.
Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist Persistent World for Neverwinter Nights: www.nwnravenloft.com
I didn't mean it in terms of governmental involvement or control over the peasants - I meant "control" more in the vein of "self control", and how he seems to enjoy toying with people and, despite the rages, being obsessed about controlling or possessing that lost love of his.
I think "possessive" might be a better expression of it/him, but that's not the word I used.
In the books, he seems like such an active, vital part of the Barovian's day to day fear and dread - where his burgomasters are in power because of him. There's stories about him having guests up to the castle, and then others that seem to paint the castle as all-but-abandoned and nigh-uninhabitable. I suppose I kind of get a little turned about in that dichotomy.
I'm hijacking this topic with undead magic, but I'm trying to make a Tasha's Group Patron out of Strahd (Azalin is coming out first at >50% done!, then the Van Richten Society).
This take might be controversial, but Strahd von Zarovich's relative in-setting prestige in the Ravenloft Universe makes no sense. This has nothing to do with his statblock, but rather the really apparent disconnect between his tiny backwater domain and his claimed reach and control. Count Capey doesn't have a real army like Falkovnia or secret police like Darkon, doesn't have a grip on the financial network like Borca, population and blackmail power like Richemulot, cultural control like Dementlieu, and Barovia doesn't really have any huge exports although it is centrally situated.
Strahd seems to be lacking in foreign ambition other than stalking Tatyana's reincarnation and not letting other Darklords embarrass him too much. I'm going to have to get really creative to explain how this guy can be useful outside his borders or what the heck he might want out of the rest of Ravenloft that isn't his brother's wife and watching nice things burn. Thoughts? Help me?
Mischief wrote:I'm hijacking this topic with undead magic, but I'm trying to make a Tasha's Group Patron out of Strahd (Azalin is coming out first at >50% done!, then the Van Richten Society).
This take might be controversial, but Strahd von Zarovich's relative in-setting prestige in the Ravenloft Universe makes no sense. This has nothing to do with his statblock, but rather the really apparent disconnect between his tiny backwater domain and his claimed reach and control. Count Capey doesn't have a real army like Falkovnia or secret police like Darkon, doesn't have a grip on the financial network like Borca, population and blackmail power like Richemulot, cultural control like Dementlieu, and Barovia doesn't really have any huge exports although it is centrally situated.
Strahd seems to be lacking in foreign ambition other than stalking Tatyana's reincarnation and not letting other Darklords embarrass him too much. I'm going to have to get really creative to explain how this guy can be useful outside his borders or what the heck he might want out of the rest of Ravenloft that isn't his brother's wife and watching nice things burn. Thoughts? Help me?
You are right, that is the very reason why I have changed Barovia and Strahd completely; My Barovia is deceptively populated; a lot of small villages and few towns and cities, makes it one of the more populated nations with a strong martial tradition; Also, it seats on the remains of the ancienr Olympian empire, and it has a lot of resources; while Barovia is not at the moment one of the core major players (Falkovnia, Borca, Darkona and Zherisia are) Barovia is still a formidable player, and Strahd I is popular / infamous as the man who defeated the Terg Empire which had Core-wide repercussion. Strahd XII is a conservative ruler (but Castle Ravenloft is not a ruin, but a majestic fortress which regularly host feasts and houses ambassadors), but his predecessors attempted more or less successfully to expand Barovia (Wars against Gundarak, Invidia, Forlorn, Lazendrak and Borca/ Dorvinia). My Barovia is much less insulated, it mantains diplonatic relationship with its neighbours and beyond and it exports lot of craft; Barovian trade is flourishing thanks to the partnership with the Zarovan Vistani Tribe, which allow the Count-King to use the mists as a reliable transport device. The Mistway Hub is Barovia'sgreatest asset.
Mistmaster wrote:You are right, that is the very reason why I have changed Barovia and Strahd completely; My Barovia is deceptively populated; a lot of small villages and few towns and cities, makes it one of the more populated nations with a strong martial tradition; Also, it seats on the remains of the ancienr Olympian empire, and it has a lot of resources; while Barovia is not at the moment one of the core major players (Falkovnia, Borca, Darkona and Zherisia are) Barovia is still a formidable player, and Strahd I is popular / infamous as the man who defeated the Terg Empire which had Core-wide repercussion. Strahd XII is a conservative ruler (but Castle Ravenloft is not a ruin, but a majestic fortress which regularly host feasts and houses ambassadors), but his predecessors attempted more or less successfully to expand Barovia (Wars against Gundarak, Invidia, Forlorn, Lazendrak and Borca/ Dorvinia). My Barovia is much less insulated, it mantains diplonatic relationship with its neighbours and beyond and it exports lot of craft; Barovian trade is flourishing thanks to the partnership with the Zarovan Vistani Tribe, which allow the Count-King to use the mists as a reliable transport device. The Mistway Hub is Barovia'sgreatest asset.
It kind of makes you wish that instead of getting an alchemist and beast, the dread apparatus spit out a Strahd that rules a dilapidated castle, and an ambitious Strahd that rules a mountainous kingdom.
I like original Strahd as a oneshot, but Gazetteer 1 reset Strahd was definitely a better match for a campaign. Maybe I'll do a Gaz 1 Patron Strahd who is powerful like yours and just make a note that this is Strahd and Barovia after absorbing the much larger land of Gundarak. I'll have to come up with an excuse why Strahd changed though. Maybe he somehow kidnapped and drained the blood from himself from alternate timeline Prime Barovia(?) thinking he could fulfill some grand conjunction prophecy or switch places, and -although the plan fell through- that's given Strahd a bit more humanity and ambition back. Or he's finally gotten sick of adventurers rocking up to the castle to try and give him the Castlevania treatment, or Tatyana's reincarnation hit him with a clue-by-four and told him he lived in a dump, or maybe Adorjan Bognar composed an comedic opera and the whole core has a laugh at Strahd's expense.
I think you have good ideas for Strahd as a local power. I have time to think since I am 75% done with Azalin, but still have the Van Richten Society to do next.
Building on this..and wow it is weird seeing a thread I participated in when I was last active here come back to life...I feel like a Dread Possibility everyone's sort of slept on in canon is that Strahd is the first successful conqueror in Ravenloft's recent history.
Think about it; most people's experiences with capital W War are a bunch of legends and false history about past glories, then Drakov shows up and invades everyone and it never quite works out for him. Conquest in the sense that most fantasy peasants fear it barely exists in Ravenloft...and then Duke Gundar's assassinated, and Barovia just grabs the vast majority of the Domain. This should be way more of a shock for the 'legitimate' powers of the Core than it's ever played off as; you can, apparently just TAKE land after all. Even the darklords powerful and wise enough to know what really went down should, I think, have to deal with a shudder of fear at the prospect that after nearly four hundred years the old conqueror's gleam is starting to come back to Strahd's eye. An active Strahd caring about something besides his perpetual prisoner is something even Azalin has to worry about. He could make a convincing political argument that every Balok speaking nation is just a Barovian province that he's let run itself.
You could run a whole campaign on Strahd's reawakened ambition and its consequences; the militarization of the crossroads of the core, clashes with Mallochio, the Borcians, and searches for the lost families running Markovia and G'henna could take Barovian agents across the Core and beyond. Speaking of Dracula, an element of the book frequently forgotten but used really well in the Night's Dark Agents game is Dracula's ambition; he went to England not for the weather, after all, but as part of a larger plan to conquer the world. Dracula as a more passive villain came later.
As far as personality goes, I really find myself agreeing with the OG Barnabas Collins take, with a caveat that Strahd will frequently spare low level fools to 'save' for future use, the most famous of which is of course Van Richten himself. I thought Ryan Naylor's thoughts on his possible redemption in Illustrated History of the Core to be interesting, that to even get started on a path away from his damnation is only going to come when he realizes it was never about Tatyana at all.
"Is there anything keeping us from checking that place out tonight?" Besides sanity, naturally.
I believe it. I think Stoker's Dracula could have benefited from a good (better?) editor. The beginning and end are really the best, IMO, the action lags in the middle, and the title character is missing for most of the novel . . . its certainly not sacrilegious to say the novel could be more fully-formed. . . however, still one of my favorite books, and an excellent read. Stoker's ace at atmosphere.
