Wizards of the Coast vs. TSR . . .

[LadySoth]

In your opinion, which management company was better for the Ravenloft franchise as a whole? Wizards has put new life into the genre, by re-releasing some of the old titles and adding new ones with some interesting art work, but by the same token, the company is also responsible for taking away some of the "classic" elements of Ravenloft found in the genre when TSR owned it. (The elimination of the "classic" Ravenloft font, the reprinting of the old novels with new cover art, as well as the company's refusal to allow PN Elrod to write another Strahd novel come to mind.)

What we're seeing today with Wizards is the updating of the Ravenloft series to appeal to a more wide-spread, some might argue more commercial, audience. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? What are your thoughts?[/i]

EDIT: Please check out my review of WoTC's new editon of "I Strahd" here:

http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... 0528#60528

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I disagree with your last point: I don't believe that Wizards hasn't tried to market Ravenloft or open it up to a new market.

For example, the book Expedition to Castle Ravenloft was conspiciously missing the Ravenloft logo. Wizards seemed to go out of their way to seperate Strahd from the established product line.
As well, the new miniatures for Strahd and Van Richten bear no resemblence to either character.

I would argue that these are two clear signs that Wizards has decided to sink the product line and salvage some tasty bits from the rusted hulk.

[LadySoth]

I would argue that these are two clear signs that Wizards has decided to sink the product line and salvage some tasty bits from the rusted hulk.

Good point. That's actually what I was talking about when I said the genre was becomming more commercialized. I think that by updating the cover art work, and trying to make the series look more "cool" and "modern" WoTC IS in fact trying to appel to a larger audience.

I haven't heard about the reissues of the minatures though . . .tell me more . . .

[order99]

I'd say TSR-the entire concept grew to maturity at TSR, the product line came from TSR...and for sheer number of Ravenloft releases, TSR wins it again. WOTC could pull ahead later though-simply because WOTC still exists and could change policy in the future.Right now, it's all we've got left.

Well, unless you kept all the TSR stuff.

[ProfessorW]

::Raises briefly from lurkerness::

WotC hasn't done anything positive for the line that i have seen. 3E seemed to be the death knell for most of the 'specialized' gameworlds. The new Castle Ravenloft module (i don't own it) does seem to be a little generic, more or less the way it was released the first time around with I6. It seems to be released as though the gameworld never existed around it. SInce 3E, nearly all of my Ravenloft game info has come from netbooks and the writing of fans. This isn't really a terrible thing since WotC/Swords& Socrery didn't seem to grasp the subtleties of Ravenloft. It is a very 'grown-up" gameworld, and i'd say that is the opposite of their target market.

While it would be cool to have an original RL adventure in 3e to hold in my hands, i would say we are doing a very good job right here of keeping the world from dying.

[Joël of the FoS]

I would argue that these are two clear signs that Wizards has decided to sink the product line and salvage some tasty bits from the rusted hulk.

Add to this the odd fact that the novels reprint do not bear the Ravenloft logo.

It's clear that for the moment, it's a toy they are not playing with.

Joël

[HuManBing]

It's a shame you didn't include White Wolf in this poll, because WW vs. TSR would be a different question.

But yes, WotC has done very little to help the Ravenloft line and has plundered its roots wholesale with what little attention is has paid to it. TSR has generally done good work with Ravenloft, and White Wolf, despite a few teething problems, struck gold with the Gazetteer series.

[Undead Cabbage]

I can't say I'm in the slightest way surprised by the results of this poll.

It's a shame you didn't include White Wolf in this poll, because WW vs. TSR would be a different question.

But yes, WotC has done very little to help the Ravenloft line and has plundered its roots wholesale with what little attention is has paid to it.

I'd say the word plundered is putting it nicely. And yes, a poll with WW vs. TSR would be a MUCH harder call. On one hand, WW produced some fantastic gazeteers. On the other, the bulk of the Van Richten's guides came from TSR (although this is not to say that the WW VR guides didn't live up to the TSR ones).

[LadySoth]

It's a shame you didn't include White Wolf in this poll, because WW vs. TSR would be a different question.

But yes, WotC has done very little to help the Ravenloft line and has plundered its roots wholesale with what little attention is has paid to it. TSR has generally done good work with Ravenloft, and White Wolf, despite a few teething problems, struck gold with the Gazetteer series.

They did indeed. I've always liked WhiteWolf products, and since WW basically carried on the TSR tradition, I didn't really think it was necessary to list them as an option in the poll. I was more interested in learning people's views on the two companies that, I feel, have had the biggest impact on the series. Kind of an "old vs. new" deal. On the one hand, you have TSR, a pretty small company that at its height only had 400 employees and made $1 Million a year, while on the other you have the WoTC corporation which makes millions more every year and seems to own at least 3/4 of the gaming industry today. Since WW was also a smaller-scale company, it seemed to me to be a very similar option to TSR, so I didn't include it in the poll.

[HuManBing]

Yes well in that case I would like to misquote the German colonel from To Be Or Not To Be the Mel Brooks movie, and say this about WotC:

Colonel Erhardt: What they did to Ravenloft, we are now doing to Poland.

[Padraic]

Change can be extremely difficult to accept. Seeing things that are near and dear to us emerge with a new look can be painful and sometimes frightening. WoTC gave the franchise a new look and new blood, thus, enabling the series to continue for at least a while longer. I truly love all that was TSR, but I also find good in the new. Yes, the illustrations have been updated and seem crisper and the fonts are different. But, essentially, we see the series continue and for better or worse WoTC is now the "crone of the coven".

[LadySoth]

^I can see where you're coming from with that, all true and valid points. I mean, WoTC obviously HAS done some great things with the franchise, but I guess I'll always just remember the older TSR series with fond memories. Its kind of hard, for me anyway, to warm up to such a slick corporation. Unarguably they produce some nice products, but they lack the appeal of a small "mom and pop" type company like TSR. WoTC has kept Ravenloft alive, yes, but like others have said their decisions regarding RLoft seem guided primarily by a "what will sell" mindset, and not necessarily by a "what's best for the series" mindset. Congrats on being the first to bring an opposing view to the poll . . . its interesting to see what people of every viewpoint think about this particular issue.

[LadySoth]

Colonel Erhardt: What they did to Ravenloft, we are now doing to Poland.

Well I wouldn't exatly say that . . . but I can understand the sentiment behind your response, though.

[Igor the Henchman]

I voted for WotC. They licensed Ravenloft to Arthaus. If they hadn't done that, we wouldn't have had the last twenty or so supplements, including the Gazetteers.

TSR's management led it to bankrupt-cy. I remember at the time, everyone was dead certain there wouldn't ever be more Ravenloft.

[Spiteful Crow]

TSR.

Why?

Simply put:

The Dread Elf Pirate of Lake Baratok.