Café de Nuit

Looking at the lore and storylines of the Grand Conjunction and the ToUD, I've been thinking it would be a great idea to fuse the two into a single campaign. There are a lot of stylistic and story similiarities already, and if both were tweaked to work together I think it could make a prolific story arc to serve as a backdrop and dole out bit by bit as the PC's wander through the proverbial sandbox. I'm working on some ideas, which I will post here when they are ready for critique, but I'd also like to know if anyone else has attempted this and if so what their approach was. The track I'm on thus far involves some fairly major storyline changes to both, but results in a consistent storyline with continuity and transition between the two. I'd like this thread to be a collaborative framework where we can share ideas for a campaign that could be a great way to evolve the setting into an even better gothic horror framework.

Tenebris wrote:Looking at the lore and storylines of the Grand Conjunction and the ToUD, I've been thinking it would be a great idea to fuse the two into a single campaign. There are a lot of stylistic and story similiarities already, and if both were tweaked to work together I think it could make a prolific story arc to serve as a backdrop and dole out bit by bit as the PC's wander through the proverbial sandbox. I'm working on some ideas, which I will post here when they are ready for critique, but I'd also like to know if anyone else has attempted this and if so what their approach was. The track I'm on thus far involves some fairly major storyline changes to both, but results in a consistent storyline with continuity and transition between the two. I'd like this thread to be a collaborative framework where we can share ideas for a campaign that could be a great way to evolve the setting into an even better gothic horror framework.

I wrote a story/article in the next to last QTR (Quote the Raven) called the New Barovia dealing with the beginning of the ToUD, not necessarily with the Grand Conjunction. Don't know if that helps any with your idea Even started a game here pbp but got too busy in r/l to continue.

There's a 35-year gap in between the Grand Conjunction (which took place in 740) and the Time of Unparalled Darkness (which is supposed to happen in the year 775), so you'd have to make a lot of adjustments to the existing material.

Personally, I think you'd be better off giving your group a "break" (relatively speaking) after the Grand Conjunction and then use the downtime build up the ToUD.

Oh yes as far as I'm concerned the timeline can be totally revamped, not like TSR was ever any good at Ravenloft continuity anyway. Removing the 35 year gap is among the changes I'm making to the storyline. I'm still working on it but will post here on completion.

Sounds like a grand idea. (Pun intened). I tried something similar, but be warned, it is a lot to undertake. My current RL campaign has been put on hold, as we've switched to Pathfinder and are learning the new system using the "Age of Worms" campaign arc in Golorian. But I do hope to go back to RL afterwards. I attempted to run the Grand Conjunction, the Grim Harvest and eventually lead up to ToUD. This was way before the third edition material came out, as well as the FoS website giving us an outline of Azalin's return. I would definately incorporate that event as well, if possible. I started the campaign in 735 BC at one of Azalin's grand balls. There, the group met Hyskosa and our psychic PC, upon shaking his hand, witnessed the first telling of the hexad. Azalin was on hand to hear it as well and this started the ball rolling. Like "S" in the gazetteers, Azalin rewarded the PC's for past deeds in Darkon with magical amulets that they found they couldn't take off. He used these to scry on the party and became a dark and dangerous patron to the group. They were to be Darkon's embassadors to the other domains, but secretly Azalin had them working to make events happen. Meanwhile, I had the Gentleman Caller make appearances throughout, letting the group know there was a second party involved in other events. Of course, I decided to define the Dark Powers, making them evil, with the Gentleman Caller's goal to unleash all this contained evil back into the Prime Material world, using RL as a gateway from Hell itself, into the Prime. My plan is for the group to come in contact with the Carnival and have Isolde become they're new patron once Azalin makes his disappearnce. Don't now if this helps or not but that's how I plotted mine. Good luck!

Personally, I think the GC itself would make for a good ToUD. I think TSR burned themselves out a little too soon by staging a campaign-shattering climax just six adventures into the campaign setting's product line.

Given my choice, I'd reorder the Grim Harvest and the Grand Conjunction. Azalin makes his first attempt at leaving the Demiplane via a personal transformation into a demilich ("sneaking out") and then, assuming that fails, Azalin then tries to escape by breaking the Demiplane entirely ("busting out").

Specific to the GC campaigns, I've made a significant number of changes to the order of the adventures, and also dispersed them across a number of small intervening missions too, to disguise the nature of the GC. I made every main adventure a "find the item" quest to get ahold of some artifact with strong links to the Demiplane's formation. The adventures were reordered in level progression, and also included House of Strahd just before the final two adventures, to let the PCs get better acquainted with Strahd (necessary because they've been doing most of the work for Azalin in the prior adventures).

If you needed a third catastrophe to stand in for the ToUD, perhaps subscribing to the aesthetic of "everything comes in threes" then one idea I had for the ToUD was for Azalin to manipulate events in the past so that the Demiplane becomes "trapped" in an ever-recursive time loop. Simplified, this means that Azalin would send data and information back in time to constantly force the past to be inconsistent with the present. If he could reliably cause the past and present to be mutually inconsistent no matter what facts play out, then from one frame of reference he has "trapped" the Demiplane in a recursive loop. (Known as the "grandfather paradox".)

So that would be my setting story arc.

1. Azalin tries to become a Demilich and leave. (Break yourself out.)
2. Azalin causes the Grand Conjunction. (Break everybody out.)
3. Azalin screws up the flow of time in the Demiplane, forcing it to forever repeat the same few decades of two mutually contradictory realities. (Break the prison.)

Chronomancy was also a focus of a campaign idea I had, though I left the order of thing the way they were since Azalin's disppearance was a big part of it. While a demilich, he was able to transcend time, and Madame Eva enlisted the PCs to travel time as well to prevent him from unmaking the demiplane (Though she referred to him only as The Traveler). It cast the PCs as Quantum Leap type characters, though their task was often to ensure something evil happened so a domain would form. I always though it was a cool idea, but I didn't have a group at the time. It DID inspire my interest in Ravenloft history, something that still colors most of my projects.

Well, Steve Miller did say the original plan for the ToUD was to involve a time-travel plot...

CNJRavenFan wrote:Sounds like a grand idea. (Pun intened). I tried something similar, but be warned, it is a lot to undertake. My current RL campaign has been put on hold, as we've switched to Pathfinder and are learning the new system

I will be using Pathfinder instead of 4E as well, it's far more suited to Ravenloft.

[quote="HuManBing"]Given my choice, I'd reorder the Grim Harvest and the Grand Conjunction. Azalin makes his first attempt at leaving the Demiplane via a personal transformation into a demilich ("sneaking out") and then, assuming that fails, Azalin then tries to escape by breaking the Demiplane entirely ("busting out").quote]

I like this idea, my own idea involved Vecna playing a greater role and manipulating the Conunction to occur as a Prime World is being pulled into the mists during which the veil is weakest and his chance to escape strongest. However I think I'm going to incorporate your ideas as well especially on Grim Harvest/Grand Conjuncton chronology.

Putting the Grim Harvest first doesn't make any sense. The whole point of the Grim Harvest was that Azalin learned from the Grand Conjunction that he couldn't escape the demiplane under his own power as a mere lich, so he looked to become more powerful.

Bluebomber4evr wrote:Putting the Grim Harvest first doesn't make any sense. The whole point of the Grim Harvest was that Azalin learned from the Grand Conjunction that he couldn't escape the demiplane under his own power as a mere lich, so he looked to become more powerful.

I'm toying with lots of ideas and modifications to be honest. I'm fairly certain I'm going to work Vecna into the story somehow as well. Vecna wants to escape his imprisonment at least as much as Azalin and if anything is even more powerful. I'm probably going to work him in as a manipulator behind the scenes during GC & GH and he will figure more prominently in ToUD.

Bluebomber4evr wrote:Putting the Grim Harvest first doesn't make any sense. The whole point of the Grim Harvest was that Azalin learned from the Grand Conjunction that he couldn't escape the demiplane under his own power as a mere lich, so he looked to become more powerful.

Fair point. However, I'm looking at this from a slightly different agenda, which is based largely on the dramatic impact of the actual results. The GC affected various other planes and split the Demiplane open. Azalin really rattled the cage pretty badly with that, and he did so with various thematically relevant components and plot arcs. (Sergei's wedding, Strahd's rampage, not to mention the Icon and Holy Symbol... all of which date back to the founding moments of the demiplane as a whole.)

The Grim Harvest was a complete damp squib by comparison. Azalin blew himself to pieces and abdicated control over the entire domain. And the process by which he was trying to do this was largely a handwave from the module authors. "He needs to become a demilich because then his power will be enough for him to leave." "Yes, but why?" "Because he'll be a demilich." "Yes, but why?" "Because he'll be a demilich."

Based on those two disparities in actual effect and thematic sophistication, I consider it far more dramatically suitable for Azalin to have had the greater setback earlier (Grim Harvest), when he didn't really understand the mechanics of the demiplane as well, and then gotten much closer to success on his second try (Grand Conjunction).

From how I see it, it's a recurring theme that raw power alone isn't going to be enough to break out of Ravenloft - we have the examples of Vecna and Gwydion for that. I find it much more in keeping with Ravenloft's theme to reward research and diligence and creative thinking, both on the part of PCs in the mists, and also for its darklords.

"Become a demilich" is the former. "Gather artifacts and studies of the demiplane's formation" is the latter. That's why I like to reorder the two events.


Of course, this is just my own preference and it has no effect on your game. Your presentation of the setting, interpretation of its themes, and your players' gaming preferences are likely to be quite different. Your word should always be final. But that's my summary of how I did it, and why. If it makes no sense to you, then that's fine too.

I think your chronology makes thematic sense as well, which is why I'm considering altering the timeline accordingly. I've also changed the chronology of Vecna somewhat to allow him to play a role. I think he makes a great behind the scenes villain for GH anf GC and an excellent primary villain for ToUD, this is the arc through which I plan to tie them all together.

Alternatively, you could rule that Azalin learned something from the Grand Conjunction -- some inherent weakness in the barrier that keeps the domains trapped -- when that barrier briefly fell. Based on that bit of knowledge, he could have devised a new spell or ritual based on the lore he already possessed, only to realize he did not have the power to use it as a lich.
If he evolved himself into a demilich, however, the necessary power would be his.