The religions of ravenloft

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

One of my favourite things about Ravenloft is that it has a far more realistic approach to gods than most DND world.
In classic DND, gods are a fact. You don't 'believe' in the, you just know they exist.
In Ravenloft, the mists blur everything, meaning that despite prophecies and divine magic, the gods remain as mysterious and debatable as they are in the real world. A religion that started as a sham can grant real miracles. To me, as a religious person, this confusion, this search in the darkness, is a lot more relatable than the factual certainty of someone on Toril, let's say.
I also have some notes on specific religions, so I thought I'd just start a thread.
So WDYT about the various faiths in the Land of Mists?

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

I’m fascinated by the Church of Ezra. It’s a Lawful Good bastion of light in the darkness, but it’s also a Lawful Neutral arbiter of peace, but it’s also a neutral sanctum for contemplation, but it’s also a Lawful Evil apocalypse cult.

And who or what Ezra is or was is shrouded in so much mystery. The church also has potential to break the rules with other sects following other alignments.

A cleric of Ezra from Mordent would be treated as a burden in Nevuchar Springs, but obligation would not allow them to turn them away.

It’s a great role playing opportunity, and kinda makes me wish I was a Ravenloft player rather than DM.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

I'm pretty happy with the Church of Brightwell I dreamt up. ^_^;

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

I’m fascinated by the Church of Ezra. It’s a Lawful Good bastion of light in the darkness, but it’s also a Lawful Neutral arbiter of peace, but it’s also a neutral sanctum for contemplation, but it’s also a Lawful Evil apocalypse cult.

And who or what Ezra is or was is shrouded in so much mystery. The church also has potential to break the rules with other sects following other alignments.

A cleric of Ezra from Mordent would be treated as a burden in Nevuchar Springs, but obligation would not allow them to turn them away.

It’s a great role playing opportunity, and kinda makes me wish I was a Ravenloft player rather than DM.

The thing about Ezra is that when I first read about her I thought 'Come on, can't Christian authors write one religion we're meant to identify with that isn't centered around a single martyr who ascended to godhood?' -
But then I delved deeper, and I realised Ezra's story is endemic to Ravenloft as no other religion is.
Like, Ezra basically went and talked to the Dark Powers. She called them out for creating an unbalanced world with villains and monsters but no heroes - which is exactly what I think we all had in mind at some point.
And If she's real, it means that even if we go by the most malign interpretation of the Dark Powers, there's a single 'good one'. Which... Isn't this exactly the comforting we need in Ravenloft? To know that one of those unknowable and all-powerful beings actually cares? I want to believe in this. Maybe that's the base of faith - to believe your life is run by an omnipotent being beyond your comprehension can be terrifying, that's what a lot of cosmic horror is about; But to be a religious person means believing not only that such deity exists, but that it's kind and it loves us and wants what's best for us. In a world where the norm is deities for which you're literally just a toy at most, the odds are that you're merely part of the decoration, this suddenly turns so much more meaningful.
If she isn't real, I wonder why the Dark Powers would bother to make her up in a way that fits their real magic system so well.
Cause they had to start this themselves. There's no way some Dillisnya just hallucinated it.

[Baron Von Stanton]

There's no way some Dillisnya just hallucinated it.

Maybe he did hallucinate Ezra, but, just because he made Ezra up does not necessarily mean she's not real, either.

[moonglum]

One of my favourite things about Ravenloft is that it has a far more realistic approach to gods than most DND world.
In classic DND, gods are a fact. You don't 'believe' in the, you just know they exist.
In Ravenloft, the mists blur everything, meaning that despite prophecies and divine magic, the gods remain as mysterious and debatable as they are in the real world. A religion that started as a sham can grant real miracles. To me, as a religious person, this confusion, this search in the darkness, is a lot more relatable than the factual certainty of someone on Toril, let's say.
I also have some notes on specific religions, so I thought I'd just start a thread.
So WDYT about the various faiths in the Land of Mists?

I like the Ravenloft religions a lot. However, the older I get, the less excited I am about attemps to represent "realism" in fantasy worlds as if they would or should mirror how things evolved in the real world. I read science fiction and fantasy to explore alternate possibilities. The classic D&D interpretation of gods that we have was pulled directly from Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melniboné stories and their cosmic conflict between law and chaos. These days we are quite removed from the influence of those old sword and sorcery stories, but a lot of D&D tropes become a lot more fun and interesting when one is well read on Appendix N, particularly the big ones like Elric, Conan, Dying Earth and Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. The knowledge that the gods are real and at the head of a cosmic struggle and using mortals as pawns to further their goals can facilitate some awesome storytelling and is totally fantastical. I want to explore other worlds in which the assumed trajectory of real world science, morality, economics, religion and so forth are not assumed.

The game was meant, originally, to replicate these mid 20th century pulp stories.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

One of my favourite things about Ravenloft is that it has a far more realistic approach to gods than most DND world.
In classic DND, gods are a fact. You don't 'believe' in the, you just know they exist.
In Ravenloft, the mists blur everything, meaning that despite prophecies and divine magic, the gods remain as mysterious and debatable as they are in the real world. A religion that started as a sham can grant real miracles. To me, as a religious person, this confusion, this search in the darkness, is a lot more relatable than the factual certainty of someone on Toril, let's say.
I also have some notes on specific religions, so I thought I'd just start a thread.
So WDYT about the various faiths in the Land of Mists?

I like the Ravenloft religions a lot. However, the older I get, the less excited I am about attemps to represent "realism" in fantasy worlds as if they would or should mirror how things evolved in the real world. I read science fiction and fantasy to explore alternate possibilities. The classic D&D interpretation of gods that we have was pulled directly from Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melniboné stories and their cosmic conflict between law and chaos. These days we are quite removed from the influence of those old sword and sorcery stories, but a lot of D&D tropes become a lot more fun and interesting when one is well read on Appendix N, particularly the big ones like Elric, Conan, Dying Earth and Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. The knowledge that the gods are real and at the head of a cosmic struggle and using mortals as pawns to further their goals can facilitate some awesome storytelling and is totally fantastical. I want to explore other worlds in which the assumed trajectory of real world science, morality, economics, religion and so forth are not assumed.

The game was meant, originally, to replicate these mid 20th century pulp stories.

I understand and support this attitude. But I wasn't talking here about realism; I was talking about emotional reletability. I'm at a point in my life where I'm a lot more confident than I was in a while in a lot of areas, but my faith isn't one of them. I wish I could see God in my life as clearly as my book characters do, but right now I feel like I'm in the mists.
Weird, huh? People always talk about how media gave them unrealistic expectations about romance. My love life is above and beyond my expectations; my problem is unrealistic expectations about faith.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

Did it ever occur to you that The Darkest Night is a reverse holiday?

I mean, almost every culture has some sort of a mid-winter holiday. These holidays can be wildly different, but the way they're celebrated usually involves candles or glowing decorations.
Now, the reason for this could be cross-contamination (this is undoubtably the case with other winter-holiday customs, such as gift-giving), but I think there's also some sort of a universal human logic thing here:
In the darkest, coldest day of the year, what most people want to do is to gather with their family, cook something warm and... put on the lights.
Which is exactly what you must absolutely not do on The Darkest Night.
It goes deeper than just 'we do stuff differently than a real-world culture' - this act of putting on the lights during the winter holiday has strong symbolisms: keeping the hopes high even in the most despairing situations, making our home a safe space in the midst of a harsh world. By taking this ritual away from people, Azalin/The Eternal Order/The Dark Powers/The Writers basically tell the Darkonian people 'Nope. No comfort allowed. Just live your lives in fear.'
This is an amazing concept for a scary 'holidays special' adventure. (Maybe next Hannuka I'll run a one-shot about a group of Jewish off-worlders stuck in Darkon during The Darkest Night and getting in trouble for lighting a Menorah ) My only complaint is, well, that it feels unrealistic for people to maintain such an unnatural tradition for 200 years without someone, at some point, will decide that the undead couldn't be scarier than sitting and waiting in the darkness - That is, unless the threat is real, in which case we never heard again from that guy cause he was turned into a zombie and never seen again (A cool twist would be Azalin actively sending his undead troops to punish people who defied the custom) - but keep in mind that this is against magic-system logic too: Undead are supposed to be repelled by light.
Either way, I wonder how the locals pass the evening in the darkness. Do they go to sleep early? Nowhere does it say that making noise is dangerous - so are there special songs? Is the game 'Categories' associated specifically with The Darkest Night in Darkon, being the most common game that can be played by speech alone? Is it an opportunity to just... Talk to your family with no distractions around and actually get to know eachother cause there's literally nothing else to do? Or do people just sit there and suffer?

[IanFordam]

Did it ever occur to you that The Darkest Night is a reverse holiday?

I mean, almost every culture has some sort of a mid-winter holiday. These holidays can be wildly different, but the way they're celebrated usually involves candles or glowing decorations.
Now, the reason for this could be cross-contamination (this is undoubtably the case with other winter-holiday customs, such as gift-giving), but I think there's also some sort of a universal human logic thing here:
In the darkest, coldest day of the year, what most people want to do is to gather with their family, cook something warm and... put on the lights.
Which is exactly what you must absolutely not do on The Darkest Night.
It goes deeper than just 'we do stuff differently than a real-world culture' - this act of putting on the lights during the winter holiday has strong symbolisms: keeping the hopes high even in the most despairing situations, making our home a safe space in the midst of a harsh world. By taking this ritual away from people, Azalin/The Eternal Order/The Dark Powers/The Writers basically tell the Darkonian people 'Nope. No comfort allowed. Just live your lives in fear.'

Darkest Night is the "holiday", but I suspect the true (if undeclared) celebration occurs the next day. That is when Darkonians dare feel hope.

This is an amazing concept for a scary 'holidays special' adventure. (Maybe next Hannuka I'll run a one-shot about a group of Jewish off-worlders stuck in Darkon during The Darkest Night and getting in trouble for lighting a Menorah )

You may have been joking, but I like that adventure idea.

My only complaint is, well, that it feels unrealistic for people to maintain such an unnatural tradition for 200 years without someone, at some point, will decide that the undead couldn't be scarier than sitting and waiting in the darkness - That is, unless the threat is real, in which case we never heard again from that guy cause he was turned into a zombie and never seen again (A cool twist would be Azalin actively sending his undead troops to punish people who defied the custom) - but keep in mind that this is against magic-system logic too: Undead are supposed to be repelled by light.
Either way, I wonder how the locals pass the evening in the darkness. Do they go to sleep early? Nowhere does it say that making noise is dangerous - so are there special songs? Is the game 'Categories' associated specifically with The Darkest Night in Darkon, being the most common game that can be played by speech alone? Is it an opportunity to just... Talk to your family with no distractions around and actually get to know eachother cause there's literally nothing else to do? Or do people just sit there and suffer?

Probably all of the above, depending upon the household.

[Mistmaster]

Plot twist undead, during the darkest night areactually unnocuos andfriendly, as long as no light is lighted.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

Plot twist undead, during the darkest night areactually unnocuos andfriendly, as long as no light is lighted.

Nice one

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

I actually wanted to write once a (very angsty) fanfic where on one of his first monster-hunting missions that happens to take place during The Darkest Night, Van Richten is in a situation where he's forced to either light up his lantern and maybe risk summoning undead, or stay in the darkness and undoubtably fall prey to the undead he's already dealing with.
The whole story is narrated by the ghost of Eresmus (5e version where he follows his father but is cursed to never be noticed by him), who watches the whole thing from the Near Ethereal and actually hopes the light will summon him so they can finally reunite. Which doesn't happen. That's the angsty part.

[paireon]

Did it ever occur to you that The Darkest Night is a reverse holiday?

(Maybe next Hannuka I'll run a one-shot about a group of Jewish off-worlders stuck in Darkon during The Darkest Night and getting in trouble for lighting a Menorah )

Atheist and non-Jewish but I think it sounds like a blast (also agreed with you about how cool the uncertainty RE: the gods is in Ravenloft).

If you want to push the idea even further, make them come from Gothic Earth, which is definitely possible (IIRC at least two Darklords, Odiare's Maligno and the Sea of Sorrows' captain Pieter van Riese, come from there). The good news: people are still suspicious of them, but at least it's just generalized xenophobia instead of the targetted, virulent antisemitism of the late 19th century, and can be much more easily overcome. The bad news: ...they're still in the godsdamned demiplane of dread, which can be even less fun.

[alhoon]

A problem I have with religions in Ravenloft is that ... as is, Ravenloft is too small for so drastically different religions.
What I mean is that we have something the size of Switzerland with several different, drastically different religions. Not Catholics/Protestants but like Hinduists living next to Catholics next to Zoroastrians next to a bunch of Atheists.

[The Dark]

A problem I have with religions in Ravenloft is that ... as is, Ravenloft is too small for so drastically different religions.
What I mean is that we have something the size of Switzerland with several different, drastically different religions. Not Catholics/Protestants but like Hinduists living next to Catholics next to Zoroastrians next to a bunch of Atheists.

I don't see a problem if I look outside Western Europe for a comparably-sized nation-state. The Core is slightly larger than Taiwan, which has Shenism (Taiwanese indigenous "folk religion"), Taoism, Buddhism, Yiguandao, Tiandiism, Miledadao, Presbyterianism, and Catholicism all as relatively significant religions (I believe all are over 1% of the population), with small populations of Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Baha'i, Scientologists, and Jehovah's Witnesses, along with the second-largest Quaker community in Asia, a rather significant Latter-Day Saints community, enough Methodists to have a bishop, plus other Chinese salvationist doctrines other than the three mentioned above.